[MLB-WIRELESS] Resignation
Clae
clae13 at yahoo.com
Sun Mar 17 23:56:41 EST 2002
>To Everyone On This List,
>
>I have long been involved in community based organisations (20+ years)
and i'll stick my hand up for ten+ years here
>and
>would venture to say I can speak from experience here. Every group needs a
>leader.
wow, this is where everyone's pet ideologies comes out to play isn't
it? a "leader"??
>This leader must be elected by the majority with a mandate to do
>what the majority wants.
why the majority? what about everyone, whether they are aligned with
the "majority" or just doing their own thing?
this networking standard lends itself to open forms of organisation
>You will never please everyone. If you wish to be
>part of this group then you must support the group and the leader of it.
"america - love it or leave it"
elected representatives are supposed to be there to represent us to
the wider community, not to tell us what to do internally. there are
decisions that need to be made about routing etc that will
necessarily affect everyone, even those who are not currently part of
the movement.
all my comments were intended constructively - ie what i think should
be done. perhaps in my eagerness for concision i have trod on some
toes, for which i apologise.
>The group also needs a second in charge to shelter the leader from all the
>sort of crap the idiots like to throw at them because they are unhappy that
>they didn't get there own way. In short once a committee or some sort of
>leadership position is established those of you who are unhappy with the
>decisions that are made by the leadership which should be the will of the
>group can just piss off.
Um exqueeze me? I thought democratic process was all about getting
ALL points of view heard and debated - not told to "piss off" because
they don't fit the current world view of the majority and it's
commitee.
>So I for one would like to throw my full support behind Tyson and all the
>hard working guys behind the scenes
everyone who has been working hard has my full support -tyson you
included. it was certainly not my intention to diss anyone who has
been putting in the hard yards in terms of resources for this
community. where i withdraw my support is when decisions are made
without reference to the wider melbwireless community. ie "behind
the scenes." if there are commitees or expert groups or volunteer
squads or whatever they want to call themselves doing worthwhile
things for us all, let's have their work recognised by all.
>and would like to for all of you to
>support them. If you feel you can do a better job then put you hand up and
>we will see what your opinion of being a leader is in 6 months time after
>you have put up with the same shit and criticism that all leaders have to
>put up with, but in saying that if all you do is bitch
what do you call this then?
>we dont want you in a
>position of leadership cause you dont deserve the respect that should be
>given to the position.
>
>Anyways that is my two cents, anyone that wishes to flame me for it can just
>go and get stuffed.
>
>Matt.
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Matthew Chipman" <mkchipman at optushome.com.au>
>To: <melbwireless at wireless.org.au>; <Tyson.Clugg at csiro.au>
>Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 9:50 AM
>Subject: Re: [MLB-WIRELESS] Resignation
>
>
>> Tyson
>>
>> by resigning, you are doing what the minority wants. The majority would
>> want a comittee and we do need it. In fact those who think we don't are
>> just not thinking far enough ahead.
>> Everyone talks about growth and how much they want this to expand but
>> without a comittee and without direction, it WILL NOT happen. It will get
>> to a certain point then internal bikering will rip it apart.
>>
>> There have been numerous great suggestions on the list about the direction
> > the club will take, some good, some bad lets look at them all.
> >
> > WHat about the people that cant turn upto the meeting? I missed last
>months
> > and would have loved to have read some properly created minutes describing
>> what happened. Next month i will even take the minutes!
> >
>> Your last paragraph backs what others have said in favour of a comittee.
>> there is already a surplus in funds.
>>
>> There would have been several people there at the meeting who would have
>> done some quick calculations and discovered there would more likely have
>> been a surplus. In a comittee there is a tresurer who reports to a group.
>>
>> All my arguments are there to support the (public) organisation of a
>> committee
>>
>> Basically i am not going to try to talk you into withdrawing your
>> resignation, you can do that yourself. I would suggest you need some more
>> help to do what you are doing. Figure out what you need to pass on and
>pass
>> it on
>>
>> One of the first things on the agenda would be mailing list protocol. No
>> swearing, no personal abuse,
>>
>> Lets have a vote on whether we need a comitee or not? Each person sends
>an
>> email to the list with a subject "Vote comittee YES or NO" there will be a
>> bit of noise for a few days but filters are an amazing thing! also the
>vote
>> including the result is public, doesnt take much to organise (don't vote
>> yet, wait till its oked)
>>
>> One last thing. while i'm on a roll don't forget there is nothing new
>here
>> it what is going on. We are not the first club, nor are we the first
>> wireless network or the first network. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel,
>> lets look at what others have done and take what we need and chuck the
>rest.
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <Tyson.Clugg at csiro.au>
>> To: <clae13 at yahoo.com>; <melbwireless at wireless.org.au>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 4:02 AM
>> Subject: [MLB-WIRELESS] Resignation
>>
>>
>> > I apologize to everyone in the group.
>> >
>> > I have been trying VERY HARD to please lots of people.
>> > I, like others, am getting stressed.
>> > Tempers have been running very high.
>> > In the previous week, the list has seen more posts regarding
>> organisational
>> > issues than technical ones.
>> > We all want roughly the same things, we disagree on how we should
>achieve
>> > this.
>> > Nobody can please everyone all of the time.
>> >
>> > Some things do not just happen, there is a "group" of us working
>together
>> to
>> > get things happening, we have loosely referred to ourselves as a
>> > "committee".
>> > This "group" typically communicates off list.
>> > This "group" is formed of people that have been constructive and
>> > communicative at the meetings, that is people who have approached myself
>> and
>> > others and been pro-active in getting things done.
>> > The pro-active part is especially relevant. Activities carried out
>> include:
>> > * Running the current server - which includes web pages, mailing lists,
>> node
>> > maps, etc.
>> > * Building the new server, to cope with the exponential growth
>experienced
>> > by the group.
>> > * Sourcing bandwidth and hardware to run the servers.
>> > * Finding a suitable venue for our monthly meeting.
>> > * Communicating with external entities, such as the press, government
>and
>> > others.
>> > * Running the monthly meetings.
>> > * Documenting what we do, like the RFC.
>> >
>> > I have raised the issue of voting for a committee numerous times on this
>> > list.
>> > Every time I raise the issue, I get flamed.
>> > The issue won't go away until we have a committee.
>> > The group can't run itself, someone needs to organise things.
>> Melb-Wireless
>> > does not have a committee, yet the meetings still go ahead.
>> >
>> > I apologise for being human. I have my flaws like everyone else. I
>have
>> > been doing my best at helping Melb-Wireless rise to a level that we can
>> all
>> > hopefully be proud of. I am not alone in my efforts.
>> >
>> > If you have ANY questions regarding how things have been happening, who
>> has
>> > been doing what, what is planned for the future, then all you need to do
>> is
>> > ASK. We WILL reply truthfully and honestly. Feel free to ask such
>> > questions openly on the list, feel free to request that they are
>answered
>> > via the list. We can make no guarantees that we can answer every
>> question,
>> > as we are sure that there are plenty to ask, but we will try our best.
> > >
>> > If people feel that my services are not required, then I shall leave.
>As
>> > simple as that.
>> >
>> > As a matter of fact, I'm tired of being flamed.
>> >
>> > I hereby step down. I resign myself from doing anything that can be
>> > considered as helping the group.
>> >
>> > If you want me back, ask nicely. Until then, I'll be another one of
>those
>> > fools asking "what can wireless do for me", rather than "what can I do
>for
>> > the community with wireless".
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Tyson.
>> >
>> > __________________________________
>> >
>> > Tyson Clugg
>> > email: Tyson.Clugg at csiro.au
>> > phone: +61 3 9887 0117 (Home)
>> > __________________________________
>> >
>> >
>> > PS: Extra monies collected at the last meeting (total monies collected
>was
>> > $99.50, hall cost was $50.00, extra monies are therefore $49.50) shall
>be
>> > brought along to the next meeting, or forwarded to whoever decides to
>take
>> > up organising the next meeting. We probably won't fit into the scout
>hall
>> > for much longer, and the insurance on other venues is expensive. You
>will
>> > need the cash. I wish you good luck finding a venue, and the best of
>luck
>> > organising the meetings. Perhaps I might even turn up at one.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Clae [mailto:clae13 at yahoo.com]
>> > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 8:39 PM
>> > To: melbwireless at wireless.org.au
>> > Subject: [MLB-WIRELESS] Fwd: Committee Meeting
>> >
>> >
>> > I strongly object to this kind of thing being organised by private
>> > emails, without going through the public list. I am not about to
>> > become part anyone's "committee by appointment".
>> >
>> > I therefore propose that the melbwireless community move at the next
>> > meeting to establish genuine democratic process, for example, a
>> > constitution, formal incorporation, offices and decision-making
>> > procedures.
>> >
>> > I also propose that this "committee" has absolutely no recognition
>> > from the floor, until such time as a democratic process has ensued.
>> >
>> >
>> > This kind of feral back-room branch stacking really gets my giddy goat.
>> >
>> > Clae.
>> >
>> >
>> > >X-From_: tyson.clugg at csiro.au Thu Mar 14 21:20:39 2002
>> > >X-Track: 1: 40
>> > >X-Yahoo-Forwarded: from clae13 at yahoo.com to clae at tpg.com.au
>> > >From: Tyson.Clugg at csiro.au
>> > >To:
>> > >Subject: Committee Meeting
>> > >Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:20:30 +1100
>> > >
>> > >Dear "Committee",
>> > >
>> > >We are having an impromptu meeting, to discuss various developments of
>> this
>> > >week.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >***Time***
>> > >5pm Saturday March 16th 2002. This time is not concrete - if you can't
>> > make
>> > >it, TELL me. We NEED your input.
>> > >
>> > >***Location***
>> > >O'Connell Reserve.
>> > >
>> > >***Duration***
>> > >Between 2 and 4 hours.
>> > >
>> > >***Bring***
>> > >Pen and paper.
>> > >Your "everyday" laptop if you have one.
>> > >Ideas for the next meeting (12th April 2002).
>> > >Thoughts on what you would say to Senator Richard Alston if you were to
>> > meet
>> > >him and discuss current ACA regulations regarding broadcasting internet
>> > >packets on community wireless networks.
>> > >
>> > >***Leave***
>> > >Show and tell stuff, unless it is of importance to the "committee".
>> > >Friends who would be better off attending the next general meeting.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >Regards,
>> > >Tyson.
>> > >
>> > >PS: I refer to this group of people as the "committee", as I couldn't
>> think
>> > >of any other description for us at the moment.
>> > >____________________________________________
>> > >
>> > >Tyson Clugg
>> > >IT Services
>> > >CSIRO - Molecular Science, Clayton
>> > >phone (work): 03 9545 8117
>> > >phone (home): 03 9887 0117
>> > >email: tyson.clugg at csiro.au
>> > >____________________________________________
>> >
>> >
>> > --
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>> >
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> > > Archive at:
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>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
>
>
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