[MLB-WIRELESS] Fwd: [mesh] WOAH!

[KevinL]

On Tue, 2002-07-02 at 11:25, Ryan Abbenhuys wrote: 
> One more comment before I shutup on the issue...
> 
> Are we expecting that Melbwireless will eventually change from being just a
> free network for anyone (which I thought was the philosophy that everyone agreed
> on? correct me if i'm wrong), to a company or non-profit company that provides
> wireless network infrastructure for ISP's and businesses?   WTF?

$DEITY forbid we ever become that - it would be a truly horrible idea. 
But $DEITY forbid we also ever become something that places strictures
on what can happen across the mesh akin to those apana used to apply
(ie. "no commercial-nature traffic").  I think that would eventually be
far too restrictive. 

I certainly don't want to see charges being levied for access to the
network - but I _can_ realistically see individuals wanting to charge
for their own content, be it bandwidth or other, over the mesh. 

"Free network for anyone" by it's nature means people are going to be
doing things you don't like over the network.  Are you going to
seriously stand by your statement, and protect everyone's right to do
what they want over the mesh, even if it involves things you find
odious?

> Personally, I wouldn't like the idea of an individual/company/ISP paying to
> use the piece of the network that I've spent my free time setting up and developing.
> Taking away bandwidth that I could be using to copy Unreal Tournament maps off
> my mate.
> I could turn off my AP at anytime, could move house, point my antenna a different
> way, basically anything to disrupt the service that they are paying for.  What
> happens then?  Do they sue me? Do I get a couple of guys in suits on my doorstep
> asking me to please switch it back on?

That is one of the biggest restrictions to anyone being likely to sell
always-on, reliable access.  And it's a biggie, for sure.  But just
because that problem exists, I don't personally think we should be
saying "thou shalt not" to anything involving Internet, or paid-for
services. 

The nicest example I can think of is my offering my broadband link up to
other members of melb-wireless on a cost-recovery basis, perhaps if
they've only got modem links or they've been disconnected or whatever. 
I'd like the freedom to do that - and I can't see how we can allow that
and disallow other stuff.  It quickly turns into a board of people
giving their seal of approval to what goes over the mesh, and I for one
dislike that idea.

I'll note, also, that even without paid stuff going on, people _are_
going to flood your link with their traffic - if I decide to copy 10
ISOs from a friend's place through your link, you've got problems right
there.  We haven't even approached thinking about that yet, so take that
as a problem not just for paid-for traffic, but for all traffic -
congestion for the central nodes could be a big issue if/when the mesh
gets large enough, regardless of what the traffic is.

> What happens to Fred from down the street who was using my AP to link into the
> melbwireless network to then use PPPoE to access an internet connection that
> he was paying Bill for who had setup a little business to provide access to
> melbwireless members? What happens when he loses his link into the network because
> my AP blew up after a power surge, then Bill refuses to give him a refund on
> the internet access fee, then Frank starts prank calling my house at 3am and
> abusing my mother and throwing rocks at my car?
> 
> Can someone tell me what I do now please?

Call the cops?

Same deal can happen without money, in all seriousness.

I'm not suggesting that we get into the business of making money off the network.
I'm just suggesting that if people want to sell something over the mesh, they be
allowed to.  If people don't want to be involved in that, then they can opt not to buy
stuff over the mesh.  But if we're really building something that's free for people
to do what they want, then it has to be acknowledged that that's going to include
more than just the list of things you or I have thought of.  Internet access, for
me, is a natural pick.  So's VPN'ing to my own network, so's providing localised
content for places like Ceres (to steal someone else's idea ;).  But that's by no
means the full extent of what people are going to think of, I'm sure.

Closing note for me:  If people want to sell Internet access over the mesh, I
think it'd be good to let them.  So long as everyone realises that the mesh is
inherently unstable, then people should be allowed to do what they like.  Anyone
seriously looking for wireless bandwidth has enough "real" options in the form of
people like Alphalink (or others) anyway.

KJL


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