[MLB-WIRELESS] Server Virtualisation - (was RE: possible vpn

[mw at freenet.net.au]

Since you didn't specifically ask me not to reply-to-list, I'll reply this
way because I think that this is relevant discussion for all members
(financial or not;-)

> This squabbling has been going on for more than 1/2 a decade.  In all
> that time, only Rob has steped up with a real solution which was "here is
> another server, put it someplace."  Lots of others have made offers, but
> only one delivered something we can use.  That system is now being used
> for VoIP and network monitoring and a few other things.

There have been a few offers of hardware, and a few offers of hardware.
I'll step up and make an offer for both.  Our datacentre in Geelong is not
as high falutin as some of the other existing locations. But although it has
only around 10 megabits of connectivity over three uplinks, it does have
generator power backup and aircon.

Here is my offer:  I will install a small IBM rack server loaded with VMware
ESXi4 in there and give it a /27 subnet.  I will offer that platform for use
as a development box for the purposes of MW systems development.

It won't be good for a live system, because I will put priority on our
commercial traffic above anything to/from this box.

> So far the existing volenteers seem to be doing what they can.  If people
> want to help on the system, they need to talk to the coders list or talk
> to Tyson who can let them know how to link in to their meetings.

That's just it.  I've made many offers of assistance on many occasions - the
most recent offer is NOW.  So far, those offers have amounted to nothing.
OK, I won't complain about that - I have plenty to do with my time, and
voluntary contribution to MW activity is not something I consider a
birthright or anything ;-)

But the point needs to be made.  We can't complain about a lack of help when
we can't even facilitate the offers already in place!

> The past dev system was, "install this OS, these packages and check out
these files"
> Our web site development process should also work for where most of our
members work
> on code and that is on the small radios.  Creating a VM isn't going to do
> them much good.

Um... you are saying that since most folks who contribute to the code want
to do their development on a WRT box that VMs are no use?  What about if we
also provide a dev server in a colo (with access via MW network) - then
those members don't even need a WRT platform at all.

In any case, if the VMs were readily available, they can be run by anyone
under whatever virtualisation system is available - including VMWare server
running under XP.

> > 2.  split the various subsystems into independent VMs - not only makes
it
> > scalable, but also allows modular administration and development of
those
> > subsystems.

> Then we are required to maintain and secure several systems and no one has
> time to do that.

Wrong - the current admins have no time to do it.  Multiple platforms means
that more people can contribute to admin tasks.  We don't need just one
sysadmin to manage everything.  It REDUCES the workload, not increases it.

> Thats the problem with systems like this.  If someone gets hit by a bus,
> all their work will get rewritten.  Its risk.

It is highly unlikely that it will be completely rewritten.  I've seen some
pretty dodgy code in my time (and I've written a lot of it! ;-) but it is
usually more efficient to wade through crap code and fix it up than to write
new code from scratch.  First think that needs to be done is to set up the
code in a way that is accessible to interested parties and safe to the live
MW systems.  What better way than virtualisation.

The best way for a new contributor to learn how the system works is to give
them high level access (I avoid the term 'root' since that seems to ring
alarm bells around here ;-) and let them play.

> > Once we have a system in place to support multiple
> > developers/debuggers/coders/call-em-what-you-will, then we are no longer
> > dependent on a few overworked individuals to do what needs to be done.

> I think there is a system in place already for the web site codebase (ask
> coders@) and many of the groups that are working on the openwrt hacks have
> their own system as well.

I've sent a request to coders at melbournewireless.org.au yesterday.  I'm sure
I've sent one several times before actually, but we'll see what happens this
time.  I'm not expecting an immediate response, though, but it would be nice
to receive a response within a couple of days at least to acknowledge
receipt, and some indication of intent.  

In the meantime, I'll continue forwarding discussion to this list - at least
until such a time as there is a clamour of complaints that urge me to
'shaddap!'

So to all: if you are sick of my ranting, feel free to publicly denounce my
crapola - else do it off list if you prefer.  I will interpret the absence
of vitriol as implicit permission to continue being a serial suisance ;-D

Cheers,  Mike.