[MLB-WIRELESS] Solar power system

Thu Apr 23 08:45:42 EST 2009

Hi there,

This is my first post here.

My wife & I attended an info session last night at the Hobsons Bay City 
council  regarding the cost and installation of a 1KW solar system currently 
on offer.( http://www.hobsons.vic.gov.au/page/Page.asp?Page_Id=4054&h=-1 )

The presentation was done by Eco-Kinetics ( http://www.eco-kinetics.com/ ) 
who is the preferred installer by a number of Melbourne Councils. This firm 
has completed a few thousand installations in QLD so they have the "runs on 
the board".

Eco-Kinetics does not request that you assign the RECS to them as part of 
their package. They will sell them on your behalf if you wish (value 
curently around $650) but do not recommend that you sell them.

The average cost of system with the rebate applied is between $1400 (8 
Amorphous solar panels) to $2500 (6 Mono Crystalline panels).

We signed up last night!

Cheers

Cameron

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul van den Bergen" <paul.vandenbergen at gmail.com>
To: <melbwireless at wireless.org.au>
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: [MLB-WIRELESS] Solar power system

> according to reading I've been doing (e.g. ATA) RECS are kinda bad.
>
> quick version: RECS sold by producers to polluters allow polluters to
> offset their current emissions against future savings represented by
> the RECS... That's bad enough but the new scheme greatly inflates the
> number of RECS a given system produces - so it's feasible that selling
> your RECS allows e.g. a coal burner to produce up to 7 times the
> amount of CO2 that you are saving...
>
>
> what bugs me now is finding a power company to buy my solar power
> without contractually grabbing my RECS too.
>
>
> fundamentally in order, my recommendation would be as follows:
>
> best bang for buck environmental power spend...
>
> 1) buy 100% accredited green power
> 2) install insulation
> 3) buy solar panels but refuse to sell RECS
>
> current $8k rebate is better deal than future increased RECS scheme as
> new scheme is ONLY RECS.
>
> check out the ata website for more info.
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:33 PM, Nigel Zeinert <nigelz1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi All
>>
>> I just thought i should add my 2 bob's worth to this discussion.
>>
>> The REC credits are often sold/assigned to the installer. You don't have 
>> to
>> sell your credits, but it is often a term of the installer's contract. 
>> For
>> example: Clear Solar buy your credits for $1450. That's OK but the 
>> current
>> price for a REC is $69. So Clear Solar is banking on the cost of the REC
>> credit to increase to recoup the $1450. After July 2009 the price is
>> predicted to go up.
>> see
>> http://www.clearsolar.com.au/New/temp2_hpm/quote.php
>>
>> So the government is not giving you anything if you sell the REC credits 
>> to
>> the installer.
>>
>> nuenergy are giving the system away for free.They are banking on the REC 
>> to
>> increase a lot.
>> http://www.nuenergy.com.au/pvsolar.php
>>
>> I don't know if the REC will increase but if they do you will not 
>> benefit.
>> see
>> http://www.orer.gov.au/recs/
>>
>> So if the government does change the system (I think they will) then a 
>> 1kW
>> solar system may be worth 105 REC's. If this is the case then Clear Solar
>> and nuenergy will have a nice winfall, assuming the price does not fall
>> below $13.80 per REC (it has been as low as $9).
>>
>> Regardless whether you sell or keep the REC's, the $8,000 from the
>> Australian Government is still a good deal.
>>
>> So think about not selling your REC's to the installer. ( If I had a roof 
>> on
>> the north side of my duplex i would install a solar system, and I would 
>> keep
>> my REC's. ) (I can't get solar) :( )
>>
>> Also you will be lucky to get 10years from your inverter.
>>
>> Nigel
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Nigel Zeinert <nigelz1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi All melbwireless at wireless.org.au
>>>
>>> I just thought i should add my 2 bob's worth to this discussion.
>>>
>>> The REC credits are often sold/assigned to the installer. You don't have
>>> to sell your credits, but it is often a term of the installer's 
>>> contract.
>>> For example: Clear Solar buy your credits for $1450. That's OK but the
>>> current price for a REC is $69. So Clear Solar is banking on the cost of 
>>> the
>>> REC credit to increase to recoup the $1450. After July 2009 the price is
>>> predicted to go up.
>>> see
>>> http://www.clearsolar.com.au/New/temp2_hpm/quote.php
>>>
>>> So the government is not giving you anything if you sell the REC credits
>>> to the installer.
>>>
>>> nuenergy are giving the system away for free.They are banking on the REC
>>> to increase a lot.
>>> http://www.nuenergy.com.au/pvsolar.php
>>>
>>> I don't know if the REC will increase but if they do you will not 
>>> benefit.
>>> see
>>> http://www.orer.gov.au/recs/
>>>
>>> So if the government does change the system (I think they will) then a 
>>> 1kW
>>> solar system may be worth 105 REC's. If this is the case then Clear 
>>> Solar
>>> and nuenergy will have a nice winfall, assuming the price does not fall
>>> below $13.80 per REC (it has been as low as $9).
>>>
>>> Regardless whether you sell or keep the REC's, the $8,000 from the
>>> Australian Government is still a good deal.
>>>
>>> So think about not selling your REC's to the installer. ( If I had a 
>>> roof
>>> on the north side of my duplex i would install a solar system, and I 
>>> would
>>> keep my REC's. ) (I can't get solar) :( )
>>>
>>> Also you will be lucky to get 10years from your inverter.
>>>
>>> Nigel Zeinert
>>>
>>> 2009/4/17 Peter Buncle <peter at nmc.net.au>
>>>>
>>>> <quote>
>>>>
>>>> I'm hoping they have some zenners in that circuit, or the inverter
>>>> drawing 2 much will be very un friendly for the poor charge circuit, 
>>>> sadly
>>>> there is normally no protection on it. (As there is normally large 
>>>> banks of
>>>> batteries to take any slack)
>>>> You might also want to look at this issue,
>>>> The money you get back from this is negligable compared to the amount
>>>> they charge for there energy, so the most ecconomical thing to do, is 
>>>> either
>>>> detatch from the grid, or make the amount going back into the grid 
>>>> quite
>>>> small (by using it yourself),
>>>>
>>>> If anyone needs and help / advice, feel free to let me know as I'm
>>>> licensed for btg solar systems.
>>>>
>>>> </quote>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ahh no offence but what the heck do zenners have to do with this 
>>>> ???????
>>>>
>>>> At last check , the normal function of a zenner diode was to limit a
>>>> voltage to it's
>>>> designed depletion zone break down point.
>>>>
>>>> Not to mention the biggest zenner diode power rating I've seen is 1w ,
>>>> hardly suitable for a 1000w
>>>> solar system unless properly designed into a regulator.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There are **NO** batteries, it's a grid connect system **ONLY**
>>>>
>>>> The configuration is that the panels connect directly to the grid 
>>>> connect
>>>> inverter as per a NORMAL
>>>> grid connect system which is a much better way to do it in metro anyway
>>>> !!!!!!!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why waste your time, money and energy on batteries ????? Get a UPS if
>>>> power interruption is a concern to you !
>>>>
>>>> Unless your an off grid user in the bush the losses and massive cost
>>>> involved in charging / discharging
>>>> batteries make them a waste of time.
>>>>
>>>> And the thing that really pisses me off with batteries, they are a crap
>>>> energy storage medium for cyclic use.
>>>>
>>>> The recommended discharge on a cyclic system is something like only 30%
>>>> of their capacity !!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>>
>>>> I mean WTF !!! Bring on super caps please !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But there are other rebate programs to cover that scenario if there's 
>>>> no
>>>> option anyway.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This system's advantage as per most grid connect systems is by reducing
>>>> your power bill by
>>>> an average 4kw hours per day where your not drawing that power from the
>>>> grid.
>>>>
>>>> (based on Melbourne's average 4hrs a day ish of sun hours)
>>>>
>>>> Ie , with this size system it's unlikely you'll put power back into the
>>>> grid
>>>> but you'll get the saving regardless as .long as your using the power
>>>> normally
>>>> during the day.
>>>>
>>>> But the Govt announced a credit system, so you'll get the credit for 
>>>> the
>>>> power
>>>> against your bill even if you don't use it during the day.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At the end of the day it's a great deal , and it's up to you to claim
>>>> your 8k gov contribution for this
>>>> if you see the value or miss out !
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Peter
>>>> <insert suitable qualifications that I may have some idea>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: melbwireless-bounces at wireless.org.au
>>>> [mailto:melbwireless-bounces at wireless.org.au] On Behalf Of Adam 
>>>> Grigolato
>>>> Sent: Thursday, 16 April 2009 12:15 PM
>>>> To: melbwireless at wireless.org.au
>>>> Subject: Re: [MLB-WIRELESS] Melbwireless Digest, Vol 43, Issue 4
>>>>
>>>> I'm hoping they have some zenners in that circuit, or the inverter
>>>> drawing 2 much will be very un friendly for the poor charge circuit, 
>>>> sadly
>>>> there is normally no protection on it. (As there is normally large 
>>>> banks of
>>>> batteries to take any slack)
>>>> You might also want to look at this issue,
>>>> The money you get back from this is negligable compared to the amount
>>>> they charge for there energy, so the most ecconomical thing to do, is 
>>>> either
>>>> detatch from the grid, or make the amount going back into the grid 
>>>> quite
>>>> small (by using it yourself),
>>>>
>>>> If anyone needs and help / advice, feel free to let me know as I'm
>>>> licensed for btg solar systems.
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 16, 2009 12:01 PM, <melbwireless-request at wireless.org.au> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Send Melbwireless mailing list submissions to
>>>> melbwireless at wireless.org.au
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Cheap Grid connected solar system (Peter Buncle)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 20:27:18 +1000
>>>> From: "Peter Buncle" <peter at nmc.net.au>
>>>> Subject: [MLB-WIRELESS] Cheap Grid connected solar system
>>>> To: "Melbwireless" <melbwireless at wireless.org.au>
>>>> Message-ID: <D8B6081712400F449FDC8A403E1C4C6D0E07C0 at fserver.nmc.local>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I / we make no endorsment of this but thought we'd share the
>>>> opportunity,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Some of you may have heard some of us talk
>>>> about a deal on a 1kw grid connected solar system,
>>>>
>>>> Well they're running the promo again this Saturday
>>>>
>>>> (althought the deal seems to have change slightly)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The current deal as I understand it ,
>>>>
>>>> Get a 13k grid connected solar system for $2500 upfront with
>>>> $1k post installation cash back.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And bring a friend and get an extra $250 off.
>>>>
>>>> This Saturday only 10 , 12 or 2pm at Clear Solar , 1/137 rooks rd,
>>>> Vermont
>>>>
>>>> Take your rates notice with your name on the to prove ownership
>>>> of the property and a drivers lic
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's being advertised on Gold 104 atm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Quite a few of us opted for the larger more efficient 2kw inverter too
>>>> so you can
>>>> Add more panels later without inverter replacement.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Enjoy,
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Message protected by MailGuard: e-mail anti-virus, anti-spam and 
>>>> content
>>>> filtering.
>>>> http://www.mailguard.com.au/mg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> End of Melbwireless Digest, Vol 43, Issue 4
>>>> *******************************************
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
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>> Melbwireless at wireless.org.au
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>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Dr Paul van den Bergen
>
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> 