bickering and trolling, Was Re: [MLB-WIRELESS] Melbournes Broadband Enquiry Submission

[Toliman]

this has to stop.

regardless of truth, correctness, "right" or "wrong", we're obviously trying
to approach the situation with some caution and respect, and failing
miserably.

the adversarial nature is compounded by the unashamed fact that evilbunny,
Jamie lovick and others are not "members" in a sense, with no disrespect or
prejudice against them, they are observers and comrades. it might be
unfair, but it's true. unless we harness these >15km links, from 20km to
900km wireless links, or alternative network usage, there is no possibility
that they will not be nodes in melb-wireless., and they will not be joining
the working groups to discuss problems, and so far, have not contributed any
sense of community. To compound this isolation, they are members of another
group with conflicting goals and conflicting statements on how to increase
their community. to be sure, we have not yet formed a concrete community
effort, or a concrete anything, besides the fact there is an immaterial bond
between members in the mailing list, and the 40-50 people that have attended
the meetings. To have dissent on the list, and having members of other
groups sharing their viewpoint on how to manage a wireless community, it
creates some discord. with the arrival of discord, comes ego and pride, and
with a predominately male audience, we do not need arrogance and pride to
rule, we need truth and calm reasoning to do it.

The current series of the last few weeks of email correspondence, is getting
more hostile. those people that have stepped into breaking up disputes that
were never intentional, did not agree and did not achieve to resolve any
issues, but raised new issues, which aren't helping. To make it obvious and
apparent, the mailing lists and WG's are internal discussion, don't think
that because one of the members on the mailing list, writing to the group
says "we're thinking of bombing the prime minister", that's our group's
intention. you'd be dangerously foolish to believe it, and you would
endanger the process of how things evolve and grow in a discussion forum.
out of context, and rash arguments are not what we should be trading.

and to rebuff a point, Stephen (CRC) has been rather independently making
progressive changes without the full approval of the group, yes, we have
seen it, and for the most part, I do not oppose it,on principle. he is
elected to serve as president, and fulfils the role. wether you see that as
being foolhardy, inappropriate or dictatorial, it's your call. take the
matter off-list or onto IRC where we can choose to listen to your viewpoint
in a "calm" way, or not at all, at the discretion of the individual.

when you move your criticism to the list, it becomes exponentially much
worse and more harsh than it might otherwise have been than if it were
directed in less formal settings, and it generally ruins the efforts of
having cohesive free discussion if everyone was to have to watch their
language when responding to criticism, as it will be picked apart and
dissected, and rebuffed inappropriately and inaccurately. much like this
message..

to be more truthful, some of the more vocal members of the group have been
downright adversarial and childish in baiting and antagonising AWA's seeming
interference and meddling, from baiting to just downright trolling  the
mailing-list members, to undoing and eroding the goodwill of the other
wireless groups. it's not entirely the truth of the matter. the AWA, in it's
current, unaltered corporeal form is an association without corporation. it
does not currently charge membership or other fees, or do the things we are
claiming it will undo in the community, and it's not offering any peaceful
agreement or concession. it is not needed, but it is desired, that while the
AWA has different goals, we should not be forced to settle, and neither
should the AWA. we should agree to disagree, and start from there

Toliman

PS For any intent and purpose, the AWA is not the sole party at blame or
indemnification, it makes an easier point to mention the AWA where it is not
 the AWA, it might be another group or an individual representing a group.
rather than bringing into highlight the particulars of commentary from
members of each group that has had an argument over any number of issues,
it's not particularly worthy to spend time reciting and suffering every
incited and passionate email to the list, even if it is in context or not.

PPS translation: "back off and take it outside, I've made it my business to
decide we don't want troublemakers, even if you are doing the right thing,
you're not doing it the right way."




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