[Fwd: RE: [MLB-WIRELESS] Wireless 'cloud' may offer silver lining Or isit just 'pie-in-the-sky' technology?]

Sat Aug 3 23:40:44 EST 2002

wotcha,

Can I just say that I am astonished by Tyson's action in this regard and
his standing has risen enormously in my eyes due to this.  I'm REALLY
bad at backing down from something, and you'd *never* catch me doing
something like this, but by golly I'm certainly inspired now. 

I have fwded this unchanged, as I think Tyson has handled himself
excellently in this regard.

Jack: Tyson was undoubtedly in a grumpy mood, how about everyone cuts
everyone some slack? 
Tyson now has a big comfy bean bag and a sack of green happipills, I
suggest everyone make use of them.

14 years online, 500+ emails a day, every day over that period, and I've
never seen something like this. 

And I just watched 3 hours of *horror* SBS, so I'm in the mood for some
restoration of my faith in humanity. 
Thanks, Tyson.

Dwayne
moderated-but-unchanged message follows:

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [MLB-WIRELESS] Wireless 'cloud' may offer silver lining Or
isit just  'pie-in-the-sky' technology?
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 18:42:32 +1000
From: Tyson.Clugg at csiro.au
To: ddraig at pobox.com

Firstly, I apologise for the abrasiveness of my earlier post.  Obviously
I
could use some help this time, so I hereby ask Dwayne [ddraig at pobox.com]
to
moderate my reply, and forward it to the list as he sees fit.

Radio Tech writes:
> Well.....that's a great attitude to have. I don't need a 
> lecture on ACA regulations either....I happen to work in
> this industry dealing with LIPD's EVERY day :-)

Excellent, your experience is what groups like ours need.  I come from a
different (non-radio) background, but I do my best to understand the
principles regardless.  People like yourself are an invaluable asset to
groups such as Melbourne Wireless.

> Yes, there is nothing like a bit of a laugh now and again.
> Amateur Radio Operators are their own worst enemy (yes, I am 
> one of them too!)
> Persistent problems on the 433MHz band could lead to Amateur 
> losing the 433.050 to 434.79 segment. Everybody has a right
> to share class licence bands amicably.

Indeed, class licence bands are certainly to be shared.  Any
transmission in
the 2.4GHz ISM band could conceivably cause harmful interference to a
WiFi
device.  With many 2.4GHz devices on the market (microwave ovens, garage
door controllers, cordless telephones, etc), why would you rely on one
of
these devices for critical operations, knowing full well that
interference
may occur at any time for any duration?  Sure, as wireless network users
we
can help to minimise the amount of interference that we cause, but
interference can not be eliminated and is to be expected on the 2.4GHz
band.
To expect us to reduce or even cease operations because of the percieved
interference on the ISM band is fruitless - there are many more sources
of
interference than us.  If a company requires interference free spectrum,
then they will need to obtain rights to use spectrum from the ACA.
Commercial operators are expected to share with community groups as
well, or
if they do not wish to share, move out of the shared spectrum.

> Let me tell you something else.....if 802.11 users run up 
> against proprietory 2.4GHz band ISM gear....they will lose.
> That is, will be wiped out by the proprietory
> networks....why? very simple.....802.11 is a standard...its
> protocols are fixed....to retain some kind of compatibility.
> Proprietory equipment manufacturers can modify protocols, 
> timings network control etc to cater for interference etc
> from 802.11, read robust performance under tough conditions,
> 802.11 has less flexibility on this......from the minute
> knowledge I have of it.

Regardless of which protocol is more robust, any transmission on the
band
will cause interference, each device has it's own means of dealing with
this
interference (DSSS being a good means of doing this).  Interference
comes
from a variety of sources, wireless networks included.

> I have decided to play 802.11 as a hobby with people who want 
> to experiment and have fun doing it......I don't feel like an
> all out war against other ISM band users. As for 1kW on the
> ATV gear.....good luck to VK3JED.....IF he wipes out the ISM
> band....its only a matter of time before he gets a visit.
> Read the ACA regs about "knowingly causing interference" on 
> ANY band :-)

I stand corrected by another reply, VK3JED will only be transmitting
120W,
not 1KW.  Regardless, turning on any device that operates in this band
will
cause interference, so I'm not certain that the ACA regs you mention
would
apply.  For example:
I know that pushing the button on my garage door controller will cause
interference to other 2.4GHz devices, is it illegal for me to use it? 
Must
I go inside and use the hard-wired control for my garage instead of
knowingly causing this interference?

I have not read these regulations you mention, could you kindly point
out
where you found them?

> As one of the committee of Melb Wireless I thought you would 
> have a more responsible attitude towards bettering the image
> of 802.11 and all the users.

As a member of the wireless networking community, I am doing my best to
ensure that we are able to legally operate now and in the future.  As a
member of the MW committee, I am attempting to coordinate other like
minded
people so that we can achieve the goals of MW (which have only been set
in a
very loose manner).

To these ends, I initiated the development of a Wireless Code of
Practice,
so that we ensure we are not operating outside the bounds of
legislation,
regulations and public expectations.  I have already put in a a
substantial
amount of work towards developing this code, and I have invited (and
continue to call for) members of other community wireless network groups
around Australia to help with the development of the code.  For more
information, visit:
http://www.wireless.org.au/wiki/?WirelessCodeOfPractice

> I was looking at setting up an AP at the Melb Convention 
> Centre in October at the Austronics 2002 
> Exhibition......give me ONE good reason why I should
> now bother? 

1. It would be a good facility to have at the exhibition.
2. Setting it up will further your knowledge and experience in wireless
networking.
3. People will respect you for your altruism.

> Jack
> Rockhampton

Regards,
Tyson.
___________________________ 

   Tyson.Clugg at csiro.au 
 Treasurer at wireless.org.au 
   B/H: +61 3 9545 8117 
   A/H: +61 3 9887 0117 
   Mob: +61 4 0889 7662 
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